Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

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Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

Phyo Arkar
I really love qooxdoo  , and we have been using it for 4 years  , 
Thanks to qooxdoo , we can live free from HTML+CSS.

But as internet is Evolving and qooxdoo is aging , i would love to see a few new things in qooxdoo.

1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of HTMLAreas.

2) Websocket Support : Websocket is out for so long and all major browsers support it . It should be in the qooxdoo . Qooxdoo supported almost every other protocol , websocket is only missing here.

3) There are still A LOT OF Experimental in Virtual Infrastructure , and it is for ages already. It is most amazing feature of qooxdoo and it is being neglected .

4) Audio input and Cam Input API.

5) Tables , it have been ignore for so long. Tables need some love, It is second most important widget for qooxdoo. 

6) Font-Awesome based Theme, which will reduce a lot of download size for Icons and faster to render.

7) Better contrib system. Its so hard to develop a contrib for qooxdoo (that have been discussed extensively ) 



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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

John Spackman-3
> 1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of HTMLAreas.
>

HtmlArea did’t work out, because unfortunately writing a cross browser editor is a major project on it’s own (esp including IE6 support, which was a requirement at the time) - integrations with other third party editors are the way to go, e.g. TinyMCE and CKEditor.  There are contribs for at least CKEditor if not TinyMCE.

IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers, I certainly don’t have any that would see it as an upgrade from TinyMCE.

John

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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

Petr Kobalíček
Well, I think that the only advantage of HTMLArea was that all the components were styled in a qooxdoo way.

Well, and about the other points - I think that qooxdoo shouldn't wrap existing APIs, this only makes the gap between qooxdoo and existing libraries wider. I think that qooxdoo should in some way start cooperating with other libraries, making it easy to use them from qx app and vica versa.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:48 AM, John Spackman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of HTMLAreas.
>

HtmlArea did’t work out, because unfortunately writing a cross browser editor is a major project on it’s own (esp including IE6 support, which was a requirement at the time) - integrations with other third party editors are the way to go, e.g. TinyMCE and CKEditor.  There are contribs for at least CKEditor if not TinyMCE.

IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers, I certainly don’t have any that would see it as an upgrade from TinyMCE.

John

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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

Sanne Peters
In reply to this post by John Spackman-3
Hi John,

I'd like to respond to this: "IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers". How do you get this impression?

Markdown was purposely created for non-technical people to give them a mark-up language:

1. that did not have all the features that HTML had (making it far less complicated).
2. that  still as transparent as HTML in terms the way that mark-up is translated to a web-page.
3. did not have the unpredictable layout/styling behaviour caused by WYSIWYG editors.

In essence it lets the author focus on content, instead of layout & styling (which is defined by a designer).
You need to educate people on why it is better than WYSIWYG's (like TinyMCE), preferably by example.

I you disagree, please let me know.

kind regards,

Sanne
 

On 31/10/14 10:48, John Spackman wrote:
1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of HTMLAreas.

HtmlArea did’t work out, because unfortunately writing a cross browser editor is a major project on it’s own (esp including IE6 support, which was a requirement at the time) - integrations with other third party editors are the way to go, e.g. TinyMCE and CKEditor.  There are contribs for at least CKEditor if not TinyMCE.

IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers, I certainly don’t have any that would see it as an upgrade from TinyMCE.

John

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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

fritz
Sanne,

I agree with you "in principal". Unfortunately, reality is that most people
prefer to tinker with the layout/styling than concentrating on generating
content (which is a lot more difficult).

This leads to WYSIWYGot editors to be what most users want to have. I
believe "the market" for a more sensible approach is rather small (and thus
probably the effort developers want to spend on it).

Wouldn't it be rather straight forward to implement the markdown preview by
just processing the input on the server (translating it to HTML) and just display
that on the frontend?

Cheers,
Fritz

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014, Sanne Peters wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I'd like to respond to this: /"IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical
> customers"/. How do you get this impression?
>
> Markdown was purposely created for non-technical people to give them a
> mark-up language:
>
> 1. that did not have all the features that HTML had (making it far less
> complicated).
> 2. that  still as transparent as HTML in terms the way that mark-up is
> translated to a web-page.
> 3. did not have the unpredictable layout/styling behaviour caused by WYSIWYG
> editors.
>
> In essence it lets the author focus on content, instead of layout & styling
> (which is defined by a designer).
> You need to educate people on why it is better than WYSIWYG's (like TinyMCE),
> preferably by example.
>
> I you disagree, please let me know.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Sanne
>
>
> On 31/10/14 10:48, John Spackman wrote:
>>> 1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But
>>> markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of
>>> HTMLAreas.
>>>
>> HtmlArea did?t work out, because unfortunately writing a cross browser
>> editor is a major project on it?s own (esp including IE6 support, which was
>> a requirement at the time) - integrations with other third party editors
>> are the way to go, e.g. TinyMCE and CKEditor.  There are contribs for at
>> least CKEditor if not TinyMCE.
>>
>> IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers, I certainly don?t
>> have any that would see it as an upgrade from TinyMCE.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
>

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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

John Spackman-3
In reply to this post by Sanne Peters
Hi Sanne

I wouldn’t suggest to my customers that they have to use markdown to edit something - I know them well enough to know that they would not like that idea.  As it happens, online editing has come up again recently with one particular customer who felt that the quality of online editors that are “out there” is far superior to TinyMCE (ok, I’m using an old version but still).

The expectation of users is that they can edit like Word; they can copy & paste from Word; they want to have tables like Word.  

Markdown might be there to create a much-less-technical markup than HTML, but it is still a technical process they’d have to be taught, and it is nowhere near what end users expect

> In essence it lets the author focus on content, instead of layout & styling (which is defined by a designer).
> You need to educate people on why it is better than WYSIWYG's (like TinyMCE), preferably by example.
>

I don’t agree - markdown does not _remove_ the ability to specify styling, it just moves the styling into a separate offline process.

Also there are a lot of editors out there which do a passable or better job of wysiwyg editing - it’s just that it is not a trivial project to undertake.

John

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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

Phyo Arkar
In reply to this post by Petr Kobalíček
>Well, I think that the only advantage of HTMLArea was that all the components were styled in a qooxdoo way.
> I think that qooxdoo should in some way start cooperating with other libraries, making it easy to use them from qx app and vica versa.
I agree with this . I am trying to add SockJS support , and it is pretty hard. 


On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Petr Kobalíček <[hidden email]> wrote:
Well, I think that the only advantage of HTMLArea was that all the components were styled in a qooxdoo way.

Well, and about the other points - I think that qooxdoo shouldn't wrap existing APIs, this only makes the gap between qooxdoo and existing libraries wider. I think that qooxdoo should in some way start cooperating with other libraries, making it easy to use them from qx app and vica versa.


On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:48 AM, John Spackman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of HTMLAreas.
>

HtmlArea did’t work out, because unfortunately writing a cross browser editor is a major project on it’s own (esp including IE6 support, which was a requirement at the time) - integrations with other third party editors are the way to go, e.g. TinyMCE and CKEditor.  There are contribs for at least CKEditor if not TinyMCE.

IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers, I certainly don’t have any that would see it as an upgrade from TinyMCE.

John

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Re: Things need to Move qooxdoo forward.

Phyo Arkar
In reply to this post by Sanne Peters
I agree  @Sanne Peters

Markdown is using well in Reddit , which is for non-technical users. Live Markdown preview will make it a lot easier for Non-Technical users. 

I found one here , seems it will be quite easy to integrate:
https://github.com/chjj/marked/



On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Sanne Peters <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi John,

I'd like to respond to this: "IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers". How do you get this impression?

Markdown was purposely created for non-technical people to give them a mark-up language:

1. that did not have all the features that HTML had (making it far less complicated).
2. that  still as transparent as HTML in terms the way that mark-up is translated to a web-page.
3. did not have the unpredictable layout/styling behaviour caused by WYSIWYG editors.

In essence it lets the author focus on content, instead of layout & styling (which is defined by a designer).
You need to educate people on why it is better than WYSIWYG's (like TinyMCE), preferably by example.

I you disagree, please let me know.

kind regards,

Sanne

 

On 31/10/14 10:48, John Spackman wrote:
1) . We have seen that HTML Areas sucks (every HTML Area editors ) , But markdown is replacing HTML Areas ! We need markdown Preview , in place of HTMLAreas.

HtmlArea did’t work out, because unfortunately writing a cross browser editor is a major project on it’s own (esp including IE6 support, which was a requirement at the time) - integrations with other third party editors are the way to go, e.g. TinyMCE and CKEditor.  There are contribs for at least CKEditor if not TinyMCE.

IMHO markdown is useless for non-technical customers, I certainly don’t have any that would see it as an upgrade from TinyMCE.

John

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