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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

thron7
Tobias Oetiker wrote:

> I just tested the create-application.py with my sn checkout and it
> wors fine, except for two nitpicks.
>
> a) the generate.py that gets created is missing the execute bits
>
> b) the cakes icon on the "First Button" seems to be truncated on
>    the right edge. It is the icon test.png which looks to me as if
>    it was missing a pixel or two on the right edge ... (it is the
>    actual icon which is like that, but I first thought qooxdoo was
>    doing something to it.)
>  

Hi Tobi, thanks for the feedback, we'll have a look at that.

Thomas


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

thron7
In reply to this post by Chris Banford
Chris Banford wrote:
> Thanks for the hand-holding!
> I've managed to get SVN access and create-application.py building a
> custom starting point :-) . It took me a few minutes to realize that
> running the
>> C:\qooxdoo-0.8-sdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom --out=C:
>>  
> command was failing due to there being spaces and other crud in the
> path to my qooxdoo-0.8-sdk folder.

If this hints at a general problem we'd like to hear about it.

>
> Am looking forward to actually being able to play with some code!
> (tonight, after work's finished)
>
> I've added some things to the
> http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/0.8/helloworld wiki page, so
> hopefully the next person to go through this on Windows won't have to
> ask for as much help from the list...

Appreciated.

T.


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

Chris Banford
thron7 wrote:
C:\qooxdoo-0.8-sdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom --out=C:
      
command was failing due to there being spaces and other crud in the 
path to my qooxdoo-0.8-sdk folder.
    

If this hints at a general problem we'd like to hear about it.
  

I originally tried to use a path like the following:

"C:\Folder with Spaces and Uppercase\-- folder with other chars --\qooxdoosdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom --out=C:"

which failed. I moved the qooxdoo sdk directly under C: (less typing) and made sure there were no spaces, all lower-case and no chars like a '-' in the path, then it worked. I put a short note about this on the wiki.

-Chris



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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

stefan.hansel
In reply to this post by thron7
>> If this hints at a general problem we'd like to hear about it.

When trying out the trunk (yesterday) I had the same problem.
I can't remember whether this involved 'create-application.py', but
'generate.py' definitely had problems (on windows) when the current
working folder has spaces in its path. I had to 'fix' this as well by
copying qooxdoo to a spaceless path.


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

thron7
In reply to this post by Chris Banford
Chris Banford wrote:

> thron7 wrote:
>>>> C:\qooxdoo-0.8-sdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom
>>>> --out=C:
>>>>      
>>> command was failing due to there being spaces and other crud in the
>>> path to my qooxdoo-0.8-sdk folder.
>>>    
>>
>> If this hints at a general problem we'd like to hear about it.
>>  
>
> I originally tried to use a path like the following:
>
> "C:\Folder with Spaces and Uppercase\-- folder with other chars
> --\qooxdoosdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom --out=C:"
>
> which failed. I moved the qooxdoo sdk directly under C: (less typing)
> and made sure there were no spaces, all lower-case and no chars like a
> '-' in the path, then it worked. I put a short note about this on the
> wiki.

Well, this can't be it, can it?! Since you said you are using Windows
cmd as the shell, the answer to spaces in paths is quoting, right?!
Which is the general answer to all spaces in paths within cmd, whether
they are in executable programs or command line parameters.

So the hint can't be: Don't put spaces in your path to qooxdoo. - The
hint must be: Respect the path handling constraints of your shell.

Thomas


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

thron7
In reply to this post by stefan.hansel
[hidden email] wrote:
>>> If this hints at a general problem we'd like to hear about it.
>>>      
>
> When trying out the trunk (yesterday) I had the same problem.
> I can't remember whether this involved 'create-application.py', but
> 'generate.py' definitely had problems (on windows) when the current
> working folder has spaces in its path. I had to 'fix' this as well by
> copying qooxdoo to a spaceless path.
>  

While this might be a fair enough work-around for your situation, it
doesn't help towards a general solution. If you can repro the situation,
I would really appreciate a more concrete description of the problem.
Could you solve it by putting double quotes around the offending
command? Which command was it?

T.


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

Chris Banford
In reply to this post by thron7
thron7 wrote:
Chris Banford wrote:
  
thron7 wrote:
    
C:\qooxdoo-0.8-sdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom 
--out=C:
      
          
command was failing due to there being spaces and other crud in the 
path to my qooxdoo-0.8-sdk folder.
    
        
If this hints at a general problem we'd like to hear about it.
  
      
I originally tried to use a path like the following:

"C:\Folder with Spaces and Uppercase\-- folder with other chars 
--\qooxdoosdk\tool\bin\create-application.py --name=custom --out=C:"

which failed. I moved the qooxdoo sdk directly under C: (less typing) 
and made sure there were no spaces, all lower-case and no chars like a 
'-' in the path, then it worked. I put a short note about this on the 
wiki.
    

Well, this can't be it, can it?! Since you said you are using Windows 
cmd as the shell, the answer to spaces in paths is quoting, right?! 
Which is the general answer to all spaces in paths within cmd, whether 
they are in executable programs or command line parameters.

So the hint can't be: Don't put spaces in your path to qooxdoo. - The 
hint must be: Respect the path handling constraints of your shell.

Thomas
  

Hi Thomas,

Yes, I'm sure that this is the issue -- but as I'm not a command line type of guy and I'm just trying to follow the Hello World example (which in all sincerity should be *idiot proof*, and yes, I count myself in this category at the moment with qooxdoo!).

Ideally these getting started docs should be put together by someone who's using that platform and a bit of care should be taken when writing them -- once someone's cut their teeth on the qooxdoo system, then having the documentation making assumptions about the knowledge of the reader is a bit less critical...

I'll change the bit in the wiki to point out the quoted path requirement for paths that contain spaces, etc.

-Chris






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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

stefan.hansel
In reply to this post by thron7
To reproduce (using windows):

- check out trunk to 'C:\temp\qooxdoo trunk'  (<- one space in path)
- go to dir 'C:\temp\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin'
- call 'create-application.py --name TEST'  (<- works)
- switch to dir 'C:\TEMP\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin\TEST'
- call 'generate.py source'  (<- nothing I could quote here)

  --output --
  C:\TEMP\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin\TEST>generate.py source

  C:\TEMP\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin\TEST>python: can't open file
'C:\temp\qooxdoo': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
  --------

- look into generate.py and change line 37 from

  argList.append(REAL_GENERATOR)
  to
  argList.append('"'+REAL_GENERATOR+'"')

- now it works.

Two days ago that mini-fix described here, didn't help, there was another
failure later on which I couldn't resolve because I never worked with
python before.



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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

thron7
In reply to this post by Chris Banford

> Hi Thomas,
>
> Yes, I'm sure that this is the issue -- but as I'm not a command line
> type of guy and I'm just trying to follow the Hello World example
> (which in all sincerity should be *idiot proof*, and yes, I count
> myself in this category at the moment with qooxdoo!).
>
> Ideally these getting started docs should be put together by someone
> who's using that platform and a bit of care should be taken when
> writing them -- once someone's cut their teeth on the qooxdoo system,
> then having the documentation making assumptions about the knowledge
> of the reader is a bit less critical...
>
> I'll change the bit in the wiki to point out the quoted path
> requirement for paths that contain spaces, etc.
>
> -Chris
>

Chris,

Thanks for making the effort. We appreciate all input which is at least
"50% in the right direction" (to quote R. Gabriel). I thought you would
be more platform savvy, but that's fair enough, others can always take a
second look and build upon what you've written. So no side blow intended
on my side :).

But I also just wanted to raise the level of awareness towards general
solutions. And in the face of open issues, it is sometimes better just
to mention them (like "Be careful when installing into a path with
spaces...").

As for fool-proof systems, unfortunately, it is impossible to build
them, neither in code nor in documentation. Once you try it, you're
entering the infinite loop. You have to make some assumptions about user
knowledge, and draw some lines as to what to document and what not, even
on entry level. Otherwise you wind up explaining desktops, mouse
pointers and ASCII codes ... ;)

Thomas


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

thron7
In reply to this post by stefan.hansel
[hidden email] wrote:

> To reproduce (using windows):
>
> - check out trunk to 'C:\temp\qooxdoo trunk'  (<- one space in path)
> - go to dir 'C:\temp\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin'
> - call 'create-application.py --name TEST'  (<- works)
> - switch to dir 'C:\TEMP\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin\TEST'
> - call 'generate.py source'  (<- nothing I could quote here)
>
>   --output --
>   C:\TEMP\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin\TEST>generate.py source
>
>   C:\TEMP\qooxdoo trunk\tool\bin\TEST>python: can't open file
> 'C:\temp\qooxdoo': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
>   --------
>
> - look into generate.py and change line 37 from
>
>   argList.append(REAL_GENERATOR)
>   to
>   argList.append('"'+REAL_GENERATOR+'"')
>
> - now it works.
>  

Stefan, that's a great description and patch! Thank you :).

> Two days ago that mini-fix described here, didn't help, there was another
> failure later on which I couldn't resolve because I never worked with
> python before.
>  

So you are saying you applied that patch 2 days ago, but then ran into
another problem?! Is this other problem gone now? How?

T.


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

stefan.hansel
>> Two days ago that mini-fix described here, didn't help, there was
another
>> failure later on which I couldn't resolve because I never worked with
>> python before.
>>

>So you are saying you applied that patch 2 days ago, but then ran into
>another problem?! Is this other problem gone now? How?

There were commits on all this python files the last two days, so I
suppose this was fixed by chance.
Can't reproduce any other failure any more.


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Re: Hello World -- can't find "create-application.py" in qooxdoo-0.8-beta1-sdk

Chris Banford
In reply to this post by thron7

> Chris,
>
> Thanks for making the effort. We appreciate all input which is at least
> "50% in the right direction" (to quote R. Gabriel). I thought you would
> be more platform savvy, but that's fair enough, others can always take a
> second look and build upon what you've written. So no side blow intended
> on my side :).
>  

None taken :-) . I'm sure I'll be able to contribute properly at some
point, once I've grokked the qooxdoo tool chain a bit (lot) better.

> But I also just wanted to raise the level of awareness towards general
> solutions. And in the face of open issues, it is sometimes better just
> to mention them (like "Be careful when installing into a path with
> spaces...").
>  

That's fine -- a short note giving a "heads up" to those who would like
to try qooxdoo, but might not have had to deal with all of its
requirements would do the trick.

> As for fool-proof systems, unfortunately, it is impossible to build
> them, neither in code nor in documentation. Once you try it, you're
> entering the infinite loop. You have to make some assumptions about user
> knowledge, and draw some lines as to what to document and what not, even
> on entry level. Otherwise you wind up explaining desktops, mouse
> pointers and ASCII codes ... ;)
>  
Well I hope I'm not quite *that* thick ;-)

In my opinion though, you should make the initial "getting started" docs
(and this doesn't have to be more than 2-3 of them) quite robust -- even
if that means just some notes in them to point out potential pitfalls. I
think that there's a good chance that qooxdoo will become quite
mainstream, and there's a rather big pool of potential developers out
there who fall into my category (non-linux, command line). Some of these
people might be very talented, and it would be a shame to lose them to
other javascript libs that are much easier to get started with than qooxdoo.

This is all meant to fall squarely into the *positive feedback* category
-- I think what you guys have done is absolutely amazing and that
qooxdoo is by far the most promising of all the js directions out there.
:-)

Cheers,
-Chris












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