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Tancredi-Paul Grozav
How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?

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Re: Question

cherif_b
Nice question! is not popular even like bakbonejs :)!


2013/4/17 tedi tedi <[hidden email]>
How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?

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Re: Question

Thomas Herchenroeder
In reply to this post by Tancredi-Paul Grozav

On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?

That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an application with a million users speak towards the underlying framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.

But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years. Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean their user bases have stalled?!

Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.

T.

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Răspuns: Question

Tancredi-Paul Grozav
Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough, cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.

Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how many applications are out there, created with that framework.

I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I understand that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think there is a good majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and not Apache Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could talk with a PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the framework. So I guess that's why I don't like GWT.

I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.

I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I know about the list that's on the site ( http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not enough

I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service. And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still has such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or maybe 1&1 will stop investing in it

I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that relies on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and lots of link from the real_live_examples are dead.

Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.

PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\


De la: thron7 <[hidden email]>
Către: qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
Trimis: Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
Subiect: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question


On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?

That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an application with a million users speak towards the underlying framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.

But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years. Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean their user bases have stalled?!

Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.

T.

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apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
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apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
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Re: Răspuns: Question

Vishal
Hi,

I have discovered QooxDoo recently and going by examples and doing some tests across other frameworks, it looks like the best thing available. Especially for someone coming in from Python (read OO) and getting into use browser based UI for our next app. 

I think QooxDoo is a Great framework...and it will thrive as long as those who use it...keep using it in their projects. 

Adding more and more different widgets and putting them up for Demo...(something like what Dojo has on its website)..will definitely get users to look more at QooxDoo. 

The world is looking at big-data...and what do people do with big-data...they graph it, map it, and put it on charts...so having, Graphs, Charts, Map APIs will help.

Qnx (creator of the QNX RTOS), is now looking at HTML 5 to create Automobile Dashboards (instrument clusters inside Cars that would run on QNX)...so they need a lot of analog dials etc...adding such Widgets will also help people come to QooxDoo.

my 2cents worth...

Best regards,
Vishal Sapre

============================================================

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:11 PM, tedi tedi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough, cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.

Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how many applications are out there, created with that framework.

I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I understand that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think there is a good majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and not Apache Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could talk with a PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the framework. So I guess that's why I don't like GWT.

I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.

I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I know about the list that's on the site ( http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not enough

I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service. And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still has such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or maybe 1&1 will stop investing in it

I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that relies on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and lots of link from the real_live_examples are dead.

Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.

PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\

De la: thron7 <[hidden email]>
Către: qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
Trimis: Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
Subiect: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question

On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?
That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an application with a million users speak towards the underlying framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.

But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years. Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean their user bases have stalled?!

Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.

T.
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Vishal Sapre
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Re: Răspuns : Question

John Spackman-3
In reply to this post by Tancredi-Paul Grozav
> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
>cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.

Does that really matter?  How funny is a name like "Google", or how
relevant is "Apple" to computers?

> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
>their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.

Yeh, I always found that curious - I used to assume that was one of the
reasons 1&1 were developing Qooxdoo but I guess not.

> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still has
>such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or maybe 1&1
>will stop investing in it


I'd say it's a pretty strong community and that the core team advance the
product on an on-going basis, and it's open source (AFAIK unlike ExtJS) so
you would always have the code even if 1&1 decided to pull the plug.

I think you need to put in into perspective - if you're that worried,
perhaps you should look at Microsoft and .NET

> Why isn't there a company that relies on qooxdoo?  SPAR's online store
>doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and lots of link from the real_live_examples
>are dead.

Actually SPAR never used Qooxdoo for the online store ­ the
real_life_examples entry refers to the SPAR QA website, which is an
extranet website for head office and is not available to the public (I
know, I wrote it).  It's also very much alive and used on a daily basis by
suppliers across the UK and Europe; so are another couple of intranet
websites, and we're moving their ERP onto the cloud with Qooxdoo.

As for companies that rely on Qooxdoo - I do, my customers do.  Qooxdoo
brings a development environment to the client that we've only had on
servers/non-web for decades - solid OO and a rich, cross platform,
extensible set of widgets and other tools.  I've not tried ExtJS or
Prototype since I first settled on Qooxdoo around 2004/2005 but IMHO it
wins hands down and I've no intention of switching, ever.  I also use it
for writing server code now, too.

John




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apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
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Re: Răspuns: Question

Werner Thie
In reply to this post by Tancredi-Paul Grozav
Hi

so, only what the masses use (and understand) is good?

That's why PHP (Pretty Home Page, tsk) has such a following, being what
BASIC was in the seventies of the previous millenium?

With your gauges adjusted like that, you have to seek elsewhere, but
looking at it from an efficiency standpoint then:

- Qooxdoo is probably the soundest framework in JS-land because it is
technically and conceptually clean and mature.

- It is also very lenient and easy to combine with other JS libraries,
frameworks and concepts, without selling your soul to qooxdoo.

- It has a very predictable growth path, with almost no technical
hurdles in my way for the last five years, allowing me to keep
everything up to date on the route to HTML5/CSS3

- If 1&1 pulls the plug, you've got a least one to two years to bail out
and find the next best framework. After all, this is OpenSource!

My two cents of course, I run quite a few commercial websites in the
card game area with more than 60k games played to the end per day, all
done with qx, allowing me to concentrate on developing new stuff instead
of worrying about a leap frogging library underneath. What I don't do
and what my customers also do not want, is promoting qooxdoo and
bragging about it, we use it - with all the thanks going to a great
maintainer team and 1&1 for keeping them alive!

Mahalo and have fun, Werner



On 4/18/13 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:

> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
> cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.
>
> Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how many
> applications are out there, created with that framework.
>
> I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I understand
> that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think there is a good
> majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and not Apache
> Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could talk with a
> PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the framework. So I
> guess that's why I don't like GWT.
>
> I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also
> heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.
>
> I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I
> know about the list that's on the site (
> http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not enough
>
> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
> their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.
> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still has
> such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or maybe
> 1&1 will stop investing in it
>
> I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of
> people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but
> qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that relies
> on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and lots of
> link from the real_live_examples are dead.
>
> Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.
>
> PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *De la:* thron7 <[hidden email]>
> *Către:* qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
> *Trimis:* Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
> *Subiect:* Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question
>
>
> On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
>> How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?
>
> That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from
> people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question about
> how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS
> framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create
> applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure of
> popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of *users*
> using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an application with a
> million users speak towards the underlying framework?! And in the latter
> respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.
>
> But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess
> it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If
> you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of queries
> related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years. Does that
> mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below all other
> scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and common-sense
> to go directly to the relevant information that fewer people need to
> search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have relatively stable
> query counts over the last years. Does that mean their user bases have
> stalled?!
>
> Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using
> qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a
> strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops with
> Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure about
> ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about marketing
> efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is far fewer
> people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the name, the
> class and developement model or the intertwining with the tool chain
> alienate people on first sight, especially when they live west of the
> Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.
>
> T.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
> analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
> apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
> our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
> analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
> apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
> our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>


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Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Tancredi-Paul Grozav
In reply to this post by John Spackman-3
Thanks for that info on SPAR, and I'm glad to meet someone that is so confident in qooxdoo. I really didn't know that it's used so much on the intranet.
It seems ExtJS has a commercial license or GPL license, according to: http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/license/
qooxdoo's LGPL sounds better :-)



De la: John Spackman <[hidden email]>
Către: tedi tedi <[hidden email]>; qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
Trimis: Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 15:32:18
Subiect: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question

> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
>cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.

Does that really matter?  How funny is a name like "Google", or how
relevant is "Apple" to computers?

> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
>their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.

Yeh, I always found that curious - I used to assume that was one of the
reasons 1&1 were developing Qooxdoo but I guess not.

> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still has
>such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or maybe 1&1
>will stop investing in it


I'd say it's a pretty strong community and that the core team advance the
product on an on-going basis, and it's open source (AFAIK unlike ExtJS) so
you would always have the code even if 1&1 decided to pull the plug.

I think you need to put in into perspective - if you're that worried,
perhaps you should look at Microsoft and .NET

> Why isn't there a company that relies on qooxdoo?  SPAR's online store
>doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and lots of link from the real_live_examples
>are dead.

Actually SPAR never used Qooxdoo for the online store ­ the
real_life_examples entry refers to the SPAR QA website, which is an
extranet website for head office and is not available to the public (I
know, I wrote it).  It's also very much alive and used on a daily basis by
suppliers across the UK and Europe; so are another couple of intranet
websites, and we're moving their ERP onto the cloud with Qooxdoo.

As for companies that rely on Qooxdoo - I do, my customers do.  Qooxdoo
brings a development environment to the client that we've only had on
servers/non-web for decades - solid OO and a rich, cross platform,
extensible set of widgets and other tools.  I've not tried ExtJS or
Prototype since I first settled on Qooxdoo around 2004/2005 but IMHO it
wins hands down and I've no intention of switching, ever.  I also use it
for writing server code now, too.

John





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apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
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http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
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Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Tancredi-Paul Grozav
In reply to this post by Werner Thie
I never knew qooxdoo is capable of creating games. awesome :)
I'll search more about this subject and hope to see some games built with qooxdoo. Thanks


De la: Werner Thie <[hidden email]>
Către: tedi tedi <[hidden email]>; qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
Trimis: Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 15:42:43
Subiect: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question

Hi

so, only what the masses use (and understand) is good?

That's why PHP (Pretty Home Page, tsk) has such a following, being what
BASIC was in the seventies of the previous millenium?

With your gauges adjusted like that, you have to seek elsewhere, but
looking at it from an efficiency standpoint then:

- Qooxdoo is probably the soundest framework in JS-land because it is
technically and conceptually clean and mature.

- It is also very lenient and easy to combine with other JS libraries,
frameworks and concepts, without selling your soul to qooxdoo.

- It has a very predictable growth path, with almost no technical
hurdles in my way for the last five years, allowing me to keep
everything up to date on the route to HTML5/CSS3

- If 1&1 pulls the plug, you've got a least one to two years to bail out
and find the next best framework. After all, this is OpenSource!

My two cents of course, I run quite a few commercial websites in the
card game area with more than 60k games played to the end per day, all
done with qx, allowing me to concentrate on developing new stuff instead
of worrying about a leap frogging library underneath. What I don't do
and what my customers also do not want, is promoting qooxdoo and
bragging about it, we use it - with all the thanks going to a great
maintainer team and 1&1 for keeping them alive!

Mahalo and have fun, Werner



On 4/18/13 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:

> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
> cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.
>
> Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how many
> applications are out there, created with that framework.
>
> I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I understand
> that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think there is a good
> majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and not Apache
> Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could talk with a
> PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the framework. So I
> guess that's why I don't like GWT.
>
> I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also
> heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.
>
> I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I
> know about the list that's on the site (
> http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not enough
>
> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
> their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.
> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still has
> such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or maybe
> 1&1 will stop investing in it
>
> I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of
> people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but
> qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that relies
> on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and lots of
> link from the real_live_examples are dead.
>
> Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.
>
> PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *De la:* thron7 <[hidden email]>
> *Către:* qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
> *Trimis:* Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
> *Subiect:* Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question
>
>
> On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
>> How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?
>
> That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from
> people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question about
> how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS
> framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create
> applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure of
> popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of *users*
> using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an application with a
> million users speak towards the underlying framework?! And in the latter
> respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.
>
> But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess
> it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If
> you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of queries
> related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years. Does that
> mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below all other
> scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and common-sense
> to go directly to the relevant information that fewer people need to
> search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have relatively stable
> query counts over the last years. Does that mean their user bases have
> stalled?!
>
> Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using
> qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a
> strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops with
> Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure about
> ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about marketing
> efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is far fewer
> people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the name, the
> class and developement model or the intertwining with the tool chain
> alienate people on first sight, especially when they live west of the
> Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.
>
> T.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
> analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
> apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
> our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
> analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
> apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
> our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
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Re: Răspuns: Question

Robert Nimax
In reply to this post by Werner Thie
Hi all,
I think, the big benefit is the qooxdoo core development team. There are really good developers, architects and so on working every day on that framework. Qooxdoo is driven by industry and that makes the difference to a lot of other open source frameworks out there. Even if you´d choose Microsoft or any other big player technologies, you can´t be sure that it will be supported in the future. Decisions like that are a game of pure chance. But you got the source code and qooxdoo sources are very professional, that is, you will be able to read and understand the source code. I have been thinking about founding something like a rescue company, so everyone who like and needs qooxdoo can take part und help to keep this framework alive - in case that 1&1 would stop this framework. What do you guys think about it ?
The qooxdoo approach is kind of unconventional (OO, Build process, ...) or let´s say offbeat in comparison to other javascript frameworks that are unobtrusive. This is hard to understand for other developers and maybe they just don´t get direct access to that framework because they are blinded by their habits.

Cheers,
Rob.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
 
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Robert Nimax
Geschäftsbereich Inventory & Supply Chain
INFORM GmbH, Pascalstraße 23, 52076 Aachen, Germany
Telefon: (+49) 2408 9456-1700, Fax: (+49) 2408 9456-1750
E-Mail: [hidden email], Web: http://www.inform-software.com 
INFORM Institut für Operations Research und Management GmbH
Registered AmtsG Aachen HRB1144 Gfhr. Adrian Weiler

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Werner Thie [mailto:[hidden email]]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 14:43
An: Robert Nimax; qooxdoo Development; tedi tedi
Betreff: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question

Hi

so, only what the masses use (and understand) is good?

That's why PHP (Pretty Home Page, tsk) has such a following, being what BASIC was in the seventies of the previous millenium?

With your gauges adjusted like that, you have to seek elsewhere, but looking at it from an efficiency standpoint then:

- Qooxdoo is probably the soundest framework in JS-land because it is technically and conceptually clean and mature.

- It is also very lenient and easy to combine with other JS libraries, frameworks and concepts, without selling your soul to qooxdoo.

- It has a very predictable growth path, with almost no technical hurdles in my way for the last five years, allowing me to keep everything up to date on the route to HTML5/CSS3

- If 1&1 pulls the plug, you've got a least one to two years to bail out and find the next best framework. After all, this is OpenSource!

My two cents of course, I run quite a few commercial websites in the card game area with more than 60k games played to the end per day, all done with qx, allowing me to concentrate on developing new stuff instead of worrying about a leap frogging library underneath. What I don't do and what my customers also do not want, is promoting qooxdoo and bragging about it, we use it - with all the thanks going to a great maintainer team and 1&1 for keeping them alive!

Mahalo and have fun, Werner



On 4/18/13 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:

> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
> cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.
>
> Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how
> many applications are out there, created with that framework.
>
> I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I
> understand that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think
> there is a good majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and
> not Apache Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could
> talk with a PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the
> framework. So I guess that's why I don't like GWT.
>
> I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also
> heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.
>
> I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I
> know about the list that's on the site (
> http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not
> enough
>
> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
> their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.
> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still
> has such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or
> maybe
> 1&1 will stop investing in it
>
> I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of
> people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but
> qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that
> relies on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and
> lots of link from the real_live_examples are dead.
>
> Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.
>
> PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- *De la:* thron7 <[hidden email]>
> *Către:* qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
> *Trimis:* Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
> *Subiect:* Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question
>
>
> On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
>> How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?
>
> That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from
> people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question
> about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS
> framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create
> applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure
> of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of
> *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an
> application with a million users speak towards the underlying
> framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.
>
> But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess
> it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If
> you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of
> queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years.
> Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below
> all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and
> common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer
> people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have
> relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean
> their user bases have stalled?!
>
> Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using
> qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a
> strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops
> with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure
> about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about
> marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is
> far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the
> name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the
> tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live
> west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.
>
> T.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of
> advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs
> for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science.
> Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization.
> Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of
> advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs
> for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science.
> Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization.
> Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
qooxdoo-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
qooxdoo-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
Reply | Threaded
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|

Re: Răspuns: Question

greg.hellings



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Robert Nimax <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,
I think, the big benefit is the qooxdoo core development team. There are really good developers, architects and so on working every day on that framework. Qooxdoo is driven by industry and that makes the difference to a lot of other open source frameworks out there. Even if you´d choose Microsoft or any other big player technologies, you can´t be sure that it will be supported in the future. Decisions like that are a game of pure chance. But you got the source code and qooxdoo sources are very professional, that is, you will be able to read and understand the source code. I have been thinking about founding something like a rescue company, so everyone who like and needs qooxdoo can take part und help to keep this framework alive - in case that 1&1 would stop this framework. What do you guys think about it ?

My past two jobs have been using exclusively ExtJS as the front end of the applications. In each case, all the developers were sick and tired of the buggy code, the extremely steep upgrade paths, and the anemic community that surrounds it. But in both cases, the bean counters in the company were ecstatic that they could pay for a license (OSS licenses often don't fly well during business evaluations of libraries).

Earlier this week some other team members were wondering as to why our company would stick with ExtJS when it is clearly an inferior product. Based on what my previous employer stated, it really boils down to a limited liability. If a product is purely open source and a company gets a year or even more into a project that relies heavily on it only to discover a fundamental bug in the library, they can have no assurances that this bug will ever be fixed by the core maintainers. This could result in either a year of lost development effort as said OSS library is replaced or an unknown quantity of resources which the company would need to devote to fixing the bug and then maintaining patch sets against the core library. This type of potentially unbounded liability is scary to corporate bean counters. When those folk look at ExtJS they can point to a service level agreement from Sencha that clearly states if a significant bug exists they can turn that bug over to Sencha and it will be fixed or patched or their core developers will help us come up with a workaround. Sure, it might cost thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds/rubles per year for that SLA but the costs are known beforehand.

For a small library like jQuery which is relatively easily replaceable or a patch set can be maintained with relative ease, the above problem is less drastic. But for a large framework like Qooxdoo or ExtJS, replacing the library or maintaining patch sets is a non-trivial problem. Being able to hand that business risk off to another entity is very worthwhile to many businesses. So perhaps an offering of a similar "safety net" for Qooxdoo might advance its cause in the corporate marketplace.

For as good as qx is, I've only ever met one single developer besides myself who was even aware of its existence. At least here in the USA, ExtJS is king in corporate JavaScript frameworks.

--Greg
 
The qooxdoo approach is kind of unconventional (OO, Build process, ...) or let´s say offbeat in comparison to other javascript frameworks that are unobtrusive. This is hard to understand for other developers and maybe they just don´t get direct access to that framework because they are blinded by their habits.

Cheers,
Rob.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
 
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Robert Nimax
Geschäftsbereich Inventory & Supply Chain
INFORM GmbH, Pascalstraße 23, 52076 Aachen, Germany
Telefon: <a href="tel:%28%2B49%29%202408%209456-1700" value="+49240894561700">(+49) 2408 9456-1700, Fax: <a href="tel:%28%2B49%29%202408%209456-1750" value="+49240894561750">(+49) 2408 9456-1750
E-Mail: [hidden email], Web: http://www.inform-software.com
INFORM Institut für Operations Research und Management GmbH
Registered AmtsG Aachen HRB1144 Gfhr. Adrian Weiler

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Werner Thie [mailto:[hidden email]]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 14:43
An: Robert Nimax; qooxdoo Development; tedi tedi
Betreff: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question

Hi

so, only what the masses use (and understand) is good?

That's why PHP (Pretty Home Page, tsk) has such a following, being what BASIC was in the seventies of the previous millenium?

With your gauges adjusted like that, you have to seek elsewhere, but looking at it from an efficiency standpoint then:

- Qooxdoo is probably the soundest framework in JS-land because it is technically and conceptually clean and mature.

- It is also very lenient and easy to combine with other JS libraries, frameworks and concepts, without selling your soul to qooxdoo.

- It has a very predictable growth path, with almost no technical hurdles in my way for the last five years, allowing me to keep everything up to date on the route to HTML5/CSS3

- If 1&1 pulls the plug, you've got a least one to two years to bail out and find the next best framework. After all, this is OpenSource!

My two cents of course, I run quite a few commercial websites in the card game area with more than 60k games played to the end per day, all done with qx, allowing me to concentrate on developing new stuff instead of worrying about a leap frogging library underneath. What I don't do and what my customers also do not want, is promoting qooxdoo and bragging about it, we use it - with all the thanks going to a great maintainer team and 1&1 for keeping them alive!

Mahalo and have fun, Werner



On 4/18/13 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:
> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
> cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.
>
> Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how
> many applications are out there, created with that framework.
>
> I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I
> understand that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think
> there is a good majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and
> not Apache Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could
> talk with a PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the
> framework. So I guess that's why I don't like GWT.
>
> I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also
> heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.
>
> I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I
> know about the list that's on the site (
> http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not
> enough
>
> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
> their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.
> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still
> has such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or
> maybe
> 1&1 will stop investing in it
>
> I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of
> people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but
> qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that
> relies on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and
> lots of link from the real_live_examples are dead.
>
> Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.
>
> PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- *De la:* thron7 <[hidden email]>
> *Către:* qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
> *Trimis:* Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
> *Subiect:* Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question
>
>
> On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
>> How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?
>
> That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from
> people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question
> about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS
> framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create
> applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure
> of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of
> *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an
> application with a million users speak towards the underlying
> framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.
>
> But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess
> it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If
> you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of
> queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years.
> Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below
> all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and
> common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer
> people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have
> relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean
> their user bases have stalled?!
>
> Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using
> qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a
> strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops
> with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure
> about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about
> marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is
> far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the
> name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the
> tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live
> west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.
>
> T.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of
> advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs
> for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science.
> Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization.
> Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of
> advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs
> for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science.
> Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization.
> Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
qooxdoo-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
qooxdoo-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
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Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Tancredi-Paul Grozav
In reply to this post by Robert Nimax
Rob, you might be right ... that build process might be the thing that stops most developers from using qooxdoo. I mean, on Windows you have to install python in order to build the application ...
It's a good thing i'm on Linux :-) here python is preinstalled. I mean in order to use JQuery you don't have to install anything on your computer ... I guess qooxdoo is different here, but it's better i have to say, since the code is obfuscated (protected).

I'm really interested in a qooxdoo app that acts as an IDE for qooxdoo, by the way, what IDE's do you guys use?

Thanks,
Tancredi-Paul Grozav


De la: Robert Nimax <[hidden email]>
Către: 'qooxdoo Development' <[hidden email]>
Trimis: Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 16:03:45
Subiect: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question

Hi all,
I think, the big benefit is the qooxdoo core development team. There are really good developers, architects and so on working every day on that framework. Qooxdoo is driven by industry and that makes the difference to a lot of other open source frameworks out there. Even if you´d choose Microsoft or any other big player technologies, you can´t be sure that it will be supported in the future. Decisions like that are a game of pure chance. But you got the source code and qooxdoo sources are very professional, that is, you will be able to read and understand the source code. I have been thinking about founding something like a rescue company, so everyone who like and needs qooxdoo can take part und help to keep this framework alive - in case that 1&1 would stop this framework. What do you guys think about it ?
The qooxdoo approach is kind of unconventional (OO, Build process, ...) or let´s say offbeat in comparison to other javascript frameworks that are unobtrusive. This is hard to understand for other developers and maybe they just don´t get direct access to that framework because they are blinded by their habits.

Cheers,
Rob.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
 
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Robert Nimax
Geschäftsbereich Inventory & Supply Chain
INFORM GmbH, Pascalstraße 23, 52076 Aachen, Germany
Telefon: (+49) 2408 9456-1700, Fax: (+49) 2408 9456-1750
E-Mail: [hidden email], Web: http://www.inform-software.com
INFORM Institut für Operations Research und Management GmbH
Registered AmtsG Aachen HRB1144 Gfhr. Adrian Weiler

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Werner Thie [mailto:[hidden email]]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 14:43
An: Robert Nimax; qooxdoo Development; tedi tedi
Betreff: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question

Hi

so, only what the masses use (and understand) is good?

That's why PHP (Pretty Home Page, tsk) has such a following, being what BASIC was in the seventies of the previous millenium?

With your gauges adjusted like that, you have to seek elsewhere, but looking at it from an efficiency standpoint then:

- Qooxdoo is probably the soundest framework in JS-land because it is technically and conceptually clean and mature.

- It is also very lenient and easy to combine with other JS libraries, frameworks and concepts, without selling your soul to qooxdoo.

- It has a very predictable growth path, with almost no technical hurdles in my way for the last five years, allowing me to keep everything up to date on the route to HTML5/CSS3

- If 1&1 pulls the plug, you've got a least one to two years to bail out and find the next best framework. After all, this is OpenSource!

My two cents of course, I run quite a few commercial websites in the card game area with more than 60k games played to the end per day, all done with qx, allowing me to concentrate on developing new stuff instead of worrying about a leap frogging library underneath. What I don't do and what my customers also do not want, is promoting qooxdoo and bragging about it, we use it - with all the thanks going to a great maintainer team and 1&1 for keeping them alive!

Mahalo and have fun, Werner



On 4/18/13 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:

> Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
> cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.
>
> Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how
> many applications are out there, created with that framework.
>
> I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I
> understand that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think
> there is a good majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and
> not Apache Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could
> talk with a PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the
> framework. So I guess that's why I don't like GWT.
>
> I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also
> heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.
>
> I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I
> know about the list that's on the site (
> http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not
> enough
>
> I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
> their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.
> And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still
> has such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or
> maybe
> 1&1 will stop investing in it
>
> I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of
> people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but
> qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that
> relies on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and
> lots of link from the real_live_examples are dead.
>
> Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.
>
> PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- *De la:* thron7 <[hidden email]>
> *Către:* qooxdoo Development <[hidden email]>
> *Trimis:* Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
> *Subiect:* Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question
>
>
> On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
>> How come qooxdoo is not as popular as  GWT or ExtJS ?
>
> That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from
> people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question
> about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS
> framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create
> applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure
> of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of
> *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an
> application with a million users speak towards the underlying
> framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that badly.
>
> But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess
> it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If
> you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of
> queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years.
> Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below
> all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and
> common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer
> people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have
> relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean
> their user bases have stalled?!
>
> Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using
> qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a
> strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops
> with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure
> about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about
> marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is
> far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the
> name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the
> tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live
> west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.
>
> T.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs
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> Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization.
> Get a free account!
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> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs
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> Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization.
> Get a free account!
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>


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Re: Răspuns: Question

Thomas Herchenroeder
In reply to this post by Tancredi-Paul Grozav

On 04/18/2013 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:
Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how many applications are out there, created with that framework.

For me, "out there" needs to include Intranet applications or apps that are not on the regular I*net at all (e.g. like browser-based admin interfaces of set top-boxes etc.). And many of those users prefer to stay quiet about their use of qooxdoo. Of course this is of little help here as all of this is invisible to you.

I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.

You must understand that 1&1 has quite a huge amount of functionality online, stretching both brands like 1&1, GMX, or Mail.com, as well as countries like Germany, Spain, the US or Mexico. Web applications get launched on a very broad and individual scale. And without giving away too much internals you probably won't be surprised that for each of those apps it chooses from a wide range of technologies, each under the given constraints, of which qooxdoo is just one. qooxdoo has been used on several internal projects, one being the old international GMX mail client, another being the "SmartDrive" (online store) feature of Web.de. And in future versions of the Control Panel ... who knows ;-).

T.


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Re: Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Thomas Herchenroeder
In reply to this post by Tancredi-Paul Grozav

On 04/18/2013 03:01 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
I never knew qooxdoo is capable of creating games. awesome :)
I'll search more about this subject and hope to see some games built with qooxdoo. Thanks

Lord Of Ultima used to be done with qooxdoo.

T.


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Re: Răspuns: Question

Larry K Blische
In reply to this post by Thomas Herchenroeder
Yes, I'm using qooxdoo for intranet apps...

My first app, written about three years ago is a standalone timeclock. It's platform is an all in one Asus Windows 7 machine with a touch screen that boots up into Chrome running in kiosk mode.

I am just about to release my second app which is a facility scheduling system. It replaces my eleven year old intranet app based on a small amount of Javascript in the browser and a Perl backend.

Larry
Larry Blische * Senior Analyst
The Kravis Center for the Performing Arts
701 Okeechobee Boulevard * West Palm Beach, FL 33401 USA
561.651.4379 * mailto:blische@kravis.org
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Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Tancredi-Paul Grozav
Yes ! I agree ! It's a marketing problem ! That's why qooxdoo is not so popular compared with ExtJS or GWT. What can I do about it? (more than tell my friends about it, talk on my blog, etc). At least we should get some feedback, why the users did not like it? why don't they use it?

Thanks!


În Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 18:31:48, Larry K Blische <[hidden email]> a scris:


Yes, I'm using qooxdoo for intranet apps...

My first app, written about three years ago is a standalone timeclock. It's
platform is an all in one Asus Windows 7 machine with a touch screen that
boots up into Chrome running in kiosk mode.

I am just about to release my second app which is a facility scheduling
system. It replaces my eleven year old intranet app based on a small amount
of Javascript in the browser and a Perl backend.

Larry



-----
Larry Blische * Senior Analyst
The Kravis Center for the Performing Arts
701 Okeechobee Boulevard * West Palm Beach, FL 33401 USA
561.651.4379 * mailto:[hidden email]
--
View this message in context: http://qooxdoo.678.n2.nabble.com/Question-tp7583258p7583290.html
Sent from the qooxdoo mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
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_______________________________________________
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Re: Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Petr Kobalíček
I think this is not a purely marketing problem. You will _always_ find Qooxdoo if you start doing SPAs, this is simply not an issue. You can count SPA toolkits by using your fingers ;)

I think that the biggest competition to Qooxdoo in SPA market is now:

  1. Angular
  2. ExtJS 

And Angular is going so well recently and the community is growing fast.

Best,
Petr

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Tancredi-Paul Grozav <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes ! I agree ! It's a marketing problem ! That's why qooxdoo is not so popular compared with ExtJS or GWT. What can I do about it? (more than tell my friends about it, talk on my blog, etc). At least we should get some feedback, why the users did not like it? why don't they use it?

Thanks!


În Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 18:31:48, Larry K Blische <[hidden email]> a scris:


Yes, I'm using qooxdoo for intranet apps...

My first app, written about three years ago is a standalone timeclock. It's
platform is an all in one Asus Windows 7 machine with a touch screen that
boots up into Chrome running in kiosk mode.

I am just about to release my second app which is a facility scheduling
system. It replaces my eleven year old intranet app based on a small amount
of Javascript in the browser and a Perl backend.

Larry



-----
Larry Blische * Senior Analyst
The Kravis Center for the Performing Arts
701 Okeechobee Boulevard * West Palm Beach, FL 33401 USA
<a href="tel:561.651.4379" value="+15616514379" target="_blank">561.651.4379 * mailto:[hidden email]
--
View this message in context: http://qooxdoo.678.n2.nabble.com/Question-tp7583258p7583290.html
Sent from the qooxdoo mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

greg.hellings



On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Petr Kobalíček <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think this is not a purely marketing problem. You will _always_ find Qooxdoo if you start doing SPAs, this is simply not an issue. You can count SPA toolkits by using your fingers ;)

I think that the biggest competition to Qooxdoo in SPA market is now:

  1. Angular
  2. ExtJS 

Don't neglect EmberJS either.

--Greg
 

And Angular is going so well recently and the community is growing fast.

Best,
Petr

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Tancredi-Paul Grozav <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes ! I agree ! It's a marketing problem ! That's why qooxdoo is not so popular compared with ExtJS or GWT. What can I do about it? (more than tell my friends about it, talk on my blog, etc). At least we should get some feedback, why the users did not like it? why don't they use it?

Thanks!


În Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 18:31:48, Larry K Blische <[hidden email]> a scris:


Yes, I'm using qooxdoo for intranet apps...

My first app, written about three years ago is a standalone timeclock. It's
platform is an all in one Asus Windows 7 machine with a touch screen that
boots up into Chrome running in kiosk mode.

I am just about to release my second app which is a facility scheduling
system. It replaces my eleven year old intranet app based on a small amount
of Javascript in the browser and a Perl backend.

Larry



-----
Larry Blische * Senior Analyst
The Kravis Center for the Performing Arts
701 Okeechobee Boulevard * West Palm Beach, FL 33401 USA
<a href="tel:561.651.4379" value="+15616514379" target="_blank">561.651.4379 * mailto:[hidden email]
--
View this message in context: http://qooxdoo.678.n2.nabble.com/Question-tp7583258p7583290.html
Sent from the qooxdoo mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
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Răspuns: Răspuns: Răspuns: Question

Tancredi-Paul Grozav
In reply to this post by Petr Kobalíček

Then why is it that more people hear about Angular and ExtJS while almost nobody heard about qooxdoo (none of my friends/colleagues head about qooxdoo while they did hear about angular or extjs)


În Luni, 2 Iunie 2014 16:07:58, Petr Kobalíček <[hidden email]> a scris:


I think this is not a purely marketing problem. You will _always_ find Qooxdoo if you start doing SPAs, this is simply not an issue. You can count SPA toolkits by using your fingers ;)

I think that the biggest competition to Qooxdoo in SPA market is now:

  1. Angular
  2. ExtJS 

And Angular is going so well recently and the community is growing fast.

Best,
Petr

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Tancredi-Paul Grozav <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes ! I agree ! It's a marketing problem ! That's why qooxdoo is not so popular compared with ExtJS or GWT. What can I do about it? (more than tell my friends about it, talk on my blog, etc). At least we should get some feedback, why the users did not like it? why don't they use it?

Thanks!


În Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 18:31:48, Larry K Blische <[hidden email]> a scris:


Yes, I'm using qooxdoo for intranet apps...

My first app, written about three years ago is a standalone timeclock. It's
platform is an all in one Asus Windows 7 machine with a touch screen that
boots up into Chrome running in kiosk mode.

I am just about to release my second app which is a facility scheduling
system. It replaces my eleven year old intranet app based on a small amount
of Javascript in the browser and a Perl backend.

Larry



-----
Larry Blische * Senior Analyst
The Kravis Center for the Performing Arts
701 Okeechobee Boulevard * West Palm Beach, FL 33401 USA
561.651.4379 * mailto:[hidden email]
--
View this message in context: http://qooxdoo.678.n2.nabble.com/Question-tp7583258p7583290.html
Sent from the qooxdoo mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
_______________________________________________
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