Qooxdoo users

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Phyo Arkar
>I'm just super glad and happy to have what we have. :)
All we want is want to know whats going on (Like qooxdoo next , which is very exciting but only a few knows)

And more communication with users  so we Know what we can contribute too.
And my personal choice is more integration with Github , issues raised on Bugzilla is not known to github page and we don't know what bugs are working on for github users. For me , the Bugzilla interface is very paintful to use ..


On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Loren Schlomer <[hidden email]> wrote:
One thing to remember,

Most open source projects are the efforts of people spanning many miles,
countries (and possibly continents.)  Coordinating efforts over a public
mailing system is very natural.

Now, I may be entirely wrong on this, and I hope the qooxdoo guys will
correct me... but, I understand that all of the core qooxdoo team is
under one roof at the 1&1 office, communicating primarily face-to-face
and over private corporate email.  This may prove far more productive
for their work flow (which I imagine includes more than just qooxdoo
related tasks) than public mailing lists.  This is not to say they
couldn't open up their qooxdoo development efforts more, but I imagine
they would need to separate the qooxdoo project from its corporate
sponsorship of 1&1.  The decision makers at 1&1 may not be open to that
idea.

Yes, qooxdoo is an open source project with every sense of the phrase,
yes it can be forked and turned into something more what you expect an
open source project to be, but since the core qooxdoo team earns their
living developing for 1&1, the decision to make qooxdoo development
cycles more open may currently be beyond the core developers'
capabilities.

Just something to remember when forming opinions on the state of qooxdoo
development.


I'm just super glad and happy to have what we have. :)

-ls






On 2014-12-05 09:31, Phyo Arkar wrote:
> Yes , exactly.
> For example , Rethinkdb, their whole development process is very Open
> , everything is on mailing list + github that i can follow every after
> 3 months of not reading mailing list.
>
> If qooxdoo is that open , many good things will happen.
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:00 PM, John Spackman <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Martin & Andreas
>>
>> Interesting , I am now very curious abot followings.
>>
>> * Thats means , this can be themed using CSS? (Like Bootstrap
>> CSS?)
>> * How about Layout system , will layout systems of qooxdoo will
>> kept there ? Templating? Can we mix with other template systems
>> (Bootstrap Templates , Zurb Foundation) ?
>> * Will it be easier to mix with other JS?
>>
>> We are happy with our agile approach and the intermediate results
>> while addressing specific challenges of the website-oriented
>> projects. Thus we like to share this good news, well-aware that many
>> of you won’t be able to benefit from this experimental code base
>> any time soon.
>
> I find Phyo’s questions above really interesting and relevant, but I
> can’t help thinking that if the dev team’s internal discussions
> were on an open mailing list we’d be much more up to speed already,
> without needing you guys to write a big article(s) with all the
> explanations, justification, example code, etc that a major new
> product would require.
>
> IMHO having an open dev-only mailing list could be constructive and
> time saving for you, as well as stimulating for us and the project’s
> public face.
>
> Regards
> John
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>  from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
> Dashboards
>  with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
> more
>  Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
> FREE
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> [1]
> _______________________________________________
>  qooxdoo-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel [2]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&amp;iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> [2] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
> Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
> more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
> FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel

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dev
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Re: Qooxdoo users

dev
In reply to this post by Loren Schlomer-2
Hi ls,

> One thing to remember,
>
> Most open source projects are the efforts of people spanning many miles,
> countries (and possibly continents.)  Coordinating efforts over a public
> mailing system is very natural.
>
> Now, I may be entirely wrong on this, and I hope the qooxdoo guys will
> correct me... but, I understand that all of the core qooxdoo team is
> under one roof at the 1&1 office, communicating primarily face-to-face
> and over private corporate email.  This may prove far more productive
> for their work flow (which I imagine includes more than just qooxdoo
> related tasks) than public mailing lists.  This is not to say they
> couldn't open up their qooxdoo development efforts more, but I imagine
> they would need to separate the qooxdoo project from its corporate
> sponsorship of 1&1.  The decision makers at 1&1 may not be open to that
> idea.

The last sentence is probably one of the reasons.

The big question is: Why is qooxdoo open source if not with an open thriving community? What is the gain for 1&1? What is the gain when the spread is extremely limited? Why is 1&1 spending time on the mailing list at all? Why not use that time for internal income bringing projects? Maybe it is the internal battle we see between 1&1 management, who might want the developers to focus on income bringing tasks, while the core team might want to be recognized for what they do by open source. None of it is achieved now:

1. almost no help or feedback from the community
2. less focus on internal projects -> less invoicing
3. small community -> almost no recognition to developers or 1&1

As a corporate manager it is a headless decision without point not using the community when it is open source.

> Yes, qooxdoo is an open source project with every sense of the phrase,
> yes it can be forked and turned into something more what you expect an
> open source project to be, but since the core qooxdoo team earns their
> living developing for 1&1, the decision to make qooxdoo development
> cycles more open may currently be beyond the core developers'
> capabilities.

For sure an internal battle based on misunderstanding and lack of knowledge and understanding of how a community can contribute to their own purposes as well.

> Just something to remember when forming opinions on the state of qooxdoo
> development.
>
>
> I'm just super glad and happy to have what we have. :)

We too, but definitively worried about the future as qooxdoo is lagging behind in too many areas now!


Stefan

> -ls
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2014-12-05 09:31, Phyo Arkar wrote:
>> Yes , exactly.
>> For example , Rethinkdb, their whole development process is very Open
>> , everything is on mailing list + github that i can follow every after
>> 3 months of not reading mailing list.
>>
>> If qooxdoo is that open , many good things will happen.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:00 PM, John Spackman <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Martin & Andreas
>>>
>>> Interesting , I am now very curious abot followings.
>>>
>>> * Thats means , this can be themed using CSS? (Like Bootstrap
>>> CSS?)
>>> * How about Layout system , will layout systems of qooxdoo will
>>> kept there ? Templating? Can we mix with other template systems
>>> (Bootstrap Templates , Zurb Foundation) ?
>>> * Will it be easier to mix with other JS?
>>>
>>> We are happy with our agile approach and the intermediate results
>>> while addressing specific challenges of the website-oriented
>>> projects. Thus we like to share this good news, well-aware that many
>>> of you won’t be able to benefit from this experimental code base
>>> any time soon.
>>
>> I find Phyo’s questions above really interesting and relevant, but I
>> can’t help thinking that if the dev team’s internal discussions
>> were on an open mailing list we’d be much more up to speed already,
>> without needing you guys to write a big article(s) with all the
>> explanations, justification, example code, etc that a major new
>> product would require.
>>
>> IMHO having an open dev-only mailing list could be constructive and
>> time saving for you, as well as stimulating for us and the project’s
>> public face.
>>
>> Regards
>> John
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>>  from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>> Dashboards
>>  with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
>> more
>>  Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
>> FREE
>>  
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> [1]
>> _______________________________________________
>>  qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>>  [hidden email]
>>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel [2]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1]
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&amp;iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> [2] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>> Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
>> more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
>> FREE
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel



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Re: Qooxdoo users

zaucker
How about going back to writing some more code?

Cheers,
Fritz

--
Fritz Zaucker
Oetiker+Partner AG
Aarweg 15
CH-4600 Olten
+41 62 775 9903

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Loren Schlomer-2
In reply to this post by dev
Agree on all points.  Which is why I think a fork may be necessary for
the longevity of this fantastic product.  I really empathize with the
limitations and restrictions placed on the core team and the
frustrations that have to follow, but I also understand that 1&1 runs a
business and to stay in business they have to do things that earn money.
  It almost feels like qooxdoo is a child stuck in the middle of a
custody battle.  Sad story really.

I've thought about taking the first step and creating a fork, but every
time I do, thorough introspection tells me that I don't really have the
time or energy outside of my current duties to take on such a task right
now.  That may (and hopefully will) change in the future, but right now
it's just not possible.

But to your last point, yeah the future of qooxdoo does seem uncertain,
and for that reason it's not only becoming more difficult to sell it to
stakeholders, I'm also finding it more difficult to even attempt to
market it to stakeholders.  They read buzzwords like Angular and
Bootstrap all over the place and have their minds already made up, for
all intents and purposes -- and I can't really argue with them;
combined, you can do some pretty cool stuff with Angular and Bootstrap
without much effort (Angular is a pretty decent framework...)  As
unfortunate as it is, the technical merits of qooxdoo over
Angular/Ember/Backbone/... just aren't enough anymore - and with
TypeScript and ECMA6 just around the corner, even less so.



On 2014-12-05 11:33, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi ls,
>
>> One thing to remember,
>>
>> Most open source projects are the efforts of people spanning many
>> miles,
>> countries (and possibly continents.)  Coordinating efforts over a
>> public
>> mailing system is very natural.
>>
>> Now, I may be entirely wrong on this, and I hope the qooxdoo guys will
>> correct me... but, I understand that all of the core qooxdoo team is
>> under one roof at the 1&1 office, communicating primarily face-to-face
>> and over private corporate email.  This may prove far more productive
>> for their work flow (which I imagine includes more than just qooxdoo
>> related tasks) than public mailing lists.  This is not to say they
>> couldn't open up their qooxdoo development efforts more, but I imagine
>> they would need to separate the qooxdoo project from its corporate
>> sponsorship of 1&1.  The decision makers at 1&1 may not be open to
>> that
>> idea.
>
> The last sentence is probably one of the reasons.
>
> The big question is: Why is qooxdoo open source if not with an open
> thriving community? What is the gain for 1&1? What is the gain when
> the spread is extremely limited? Why is 1&1 spending time on the
> mailing list at all? Why not use that time for internal income
> bringing projects? Maybe it is the internal battle we see between 1&1
> management, who might want the developers to focus on income bringing
> tasks, while the core team might want to be recognized for what they
> do by open source. None of it is achieved now:
>
> 1. almost no help or feedback from the community
> 2. less focus on internal projects -> less invoicing
> 3. small community -> almost no recognition to developers or 1&1
>
> As a corporate manager it is a headless decision without point not
> using the community when it is open source.
>
>> Yes, qooxdoo is an open source project with every sense of the phrase,
>> yes it can be forked and turned into something more what you expect an
>> open source project to be, but since the core qooxdoo team earns their
>> living developing for 1&1, the decision to make qooxdoo development
>> cycles more open may currently be beyond the core developers'
>> capabilities.
>
> For sure an internal battle based on misunderstanding and lack of
> knowledge and understanding of how a community can contribute to their
> own purposes as well.
>
>> Just something to remember when forming opinions on the state of
>> qooxdoo
>> development.
>>
>>
>> I'm just super glad and happy to have what we have. :)
>
> We too, but definitively worried about the future as qooxdoo is
> lagging behind in too many areas now!
>
>
> Stefan
>
>> -ls
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-12-05 09:31, Phyo Arkar wrote:
>>> Yes , exactly.
>>> For example , Rethinkdb, their whole development process is very Open
>>> , everything is on mailing list + github that i can follow every
>>> after
>>> 3 months of not reading mailing list.
>>>
>>> If qooxdoo is that open , many good things will happen.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:00 PM, John Spackman
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Martin & Andreas
>>>>
>>>> Interesting , I am now very curious abot followings.
>>>>
>>>> * Thats means , this can be themed using CSS? (Like Bootstrap
>>>> CSS?)
>>>> * How about Layout system , will layout systems of qooxdoo will
>>>> kept there ? Templating? Can we mix with other template systems
>>>> (Bootstrap Templates , Zurb Foundation) ?
>>>> * Will it be easier to mix with other JS?
>>>>
>>>> We are happy with our agile approach and the intermediate results
>>>> while addressing specific challenges of the website-oriented
>>>> projects. Thus we like to share this good news, well-aware that many
>>>> of you won’t be able to benefit from this experimental code base
>>>> any time soon.
>>>
>>> I find Phyo’s questions above really interesting and relevant, but I
>>> can’t help thinking that if the dev team’s internal discussions
>>> were on an open mailing list we’d be much more up to speed already,
>>> without needing you guys to write a big article(s) with all the
>>> explanations, justification, example code, etc that a major new
>>> product would require.
>>>
>>> IMHO having an open dev-only mailing list could be constructive and
>>> time saving for you, as well as stimulating for us and the project’s
>>> public face.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> John
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>>>  from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>>> Dashboards
>>>  with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
>>> more
>>>  Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
>>> FREE
>>>
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> [1]
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>  qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel [2]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1]
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&amp;iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> [2] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>>> Dashboards
>>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
>>> more
>>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
>>> FREE
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>> Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
>> more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
>> FREE
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Phyo Arkar
Yeah , A fork , for this project , need full time dedication , which non of us have that time or energy.
Qooxdoo have very good design philosophies , a fork should not deviate from that , and maintainers need to make sure about that.

I just hope Development process is open and inviting for the community.

And i think developers already abandoned this thread..

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Loren Schlomer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Agree on all points.  Which is why I think a fork may be necessary for
the longevity of this fantastic product.  I really empathize with the
limitations and restrictions placed on the core team and the
frustrations that have to follow, but I also understand that 1&1 runs a
business and to stay in business they have to do things that earn money.
  It almost feels like qooxdoo is a child stuck in the middle of a
custody battle.  Sad story really.

I've thought about taking the first step and creating a fork, but every
time I do, thorough introspection tells me that I don't really have the
time or energy outside of my current duties to take on such a task right
now.  That may (and hopefully will) change in the future, but right now
it's just not possible.

But to your last point, yeah the future of qooxdoo does seem uncertain,
and for that reason it's not only becoming more difficult to sell it to
stakeholders, I'm also finding it more difficult to even attempt to
market it to stakeholders.  They read buzzwords like Angular and
Bootstrap all over the place and have their minds already made up, for
all intents and purposes -- and I can't really argue with them;
combined, you can do some pretty cool stuff with Angular and Bootstrap
without much effort (Angular is a pretty decent framework...)  As
unfortunate as it is, the technical merits of qooxdoo over
Angular/Ember/Backbone/... just aren't enough anymore - and with
TypeScript and ECMA6 just around the corner, even less so.



On 2014-12-05 11:33, [hidden email] wrote:
> Hi ls,
>
>> One thing to remember,
>>
>> Most open source projects are the efforts of people spanning many
>> miles,
>> countries (and possibly continents.)  Coordinating efforts over a
>> public
>> mailing system is very natural.
>>
>> Now, I may be entirely wrong on this, and I hope the qooxdoo guys will
>> correct me... but, I understand that all of the core qooxdoo team is
>> under one roof at the 1&1 office, communicating primarily face-to-face
>> and over private corporate email.  This may prove far more productive
>> for their work flow (which I imagine includes more than just qooxdoo
>> related tasks) than public mailing lists.  This is not to say they
>> couldn't open up their qooxdoo development efforts more, but I imagine
>> they would need to separate the qooxdoo project from its corporate
>> sponsorship of 1&1.  The decision makers at 1&1 may not be open to
>> that
>> idea.
>
> The last sentence is probably one of the reasons.
>
> The big question is: Why is qooxdoo open source if not with an open
> thriving community? What is the gain for 1&1? What is the gain when
> the spread is extremely limited? Why is 1&1 spending time on the
> mailing list at all? Why not use that time for internal income
> bringing projects? Maybe it is the internal battle we see between 1&1
> management, who might want the developers to focus on income bringing
> tasks, while the core team might want to be recognized for what they
> do by open source. None of it is achieved now:
>
> 1. almost no help or feedback from the community
> 2. less focus on internal projects -> less invoicing
> 3. small community -> almost no recognition to developers or 1&1
>
> As a corporate manager it is a headless decision without point not
> using the community when it is open source.
>
>> Yes, qooxdoo is an open source project with every sense of the phrase,
>> yes it can be forked and turned into something more what you expect an
>> open source project to be, but since the core qooxdoo team earns their
>> living developing for 1&1, the decision to make qooxdoo development
>> cycles more open may currently be beyond the core developers'
>> capabilities.
>
> For sure an internal battle based on misunderstanding and lack of
> knowledge and understanding of how a community can contribute to their
> own purposes as well.
>
>> Just something to remember when forming opinions on the state of
>> qooxdoo
>> development.
>>
>>
>> I'm just super glad and happy to have what we have. :)
>
> We too, but definitively worried about the future as qooxdoo is
> lagging behind in too many areas now!
>
>
> Stefan
>
>> -ls
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-12-05 09:31, Phyo Arkar wrote:
>>> Yes , exactly.
>>> For example , Rethinkdb, their whole development process is very Open
>>> , everything is on mailing list + github that i can follow every
>>> after
>>> 3 months of not reading mailing list.
>>>
>>> If qooxdoo is that open , many good things will happen.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:00 PM, John Spackman
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Martin & Andreas
>>>>
>>>> Interesting , I am now very curious abot followings.
>>>>
>>>> * Thats means , this can be themed using CSS? (Like Bootstrap
>>>> CSS?)
>>>> * How about Layout system , will layout systems of qooxdoo will
>>>> kept there ? Templating? Can we mix with other template systems
>>>> (Bootstrap Templates , Zurb Foundation) ?
>>>> * Will it be easier to mix with other JS?
>>>>
>>>> We are happy with our agile approach and the intermediate results
>>>> while addressing specific challenges of the website-oriented
>>>> projects. Thus we like to share this good news, well-aware that many
>>>> of you won’t be able to benefit from this experimental code base
>>>> any time soon.
>>>
>>> I find Phyo’s questions above really interesting and relevant, but I
>>> can’t help thinking that if the dev team’s internal discussions
>>> were on an open mailing list we’d be much more up to speed already,
>>> without needing you guys to write a big article(s) with all the
>>> explanations, justification, example code, etc that a major new
>>> product would require.
>>>
>>> IMHO having an open dev-only mailing list could be constructive and
>>> time saving for you, as well as stimulating for us and the project’s
>>> public face.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> John
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> Dashboards
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>>> FREE
>>>
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> [1]
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>  qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel [2]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1]
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&amp;iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> [2] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> FREE
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Qooxdoo users

Daniel Wagner
Administrator
On 10.12.2014 12:29, Phyo Arkar wrote:
> Yeah , A fork , for this project , need full time dedication , which non
> of us have that time or energy.
> Qooxdoo have very good design philosophies , a fork should not deviate
> from that , and maintainers need to make sure about that.
>
> I just hope Development process is open and inviting for the community.
>
> And i think developers already abandoned this thread..

We haven't, we're just busy with the 4.0.2/4.1 release rampdown.

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Dietrich Streifert
Am 10.12.2014 um 13:00 schrieb Daniel Wagner:

> On 10.12.2014 12:29, Phyo Arkar wrote:
>> Yeah , A fork , for this project , need full time dedication , which non
>> of us have that time or energy.
>> Qooxdoo have very good design philosophies , a fork should not deviate
>> from that , and maintainers need to make sure about that.
>>
>> I just hope Development process is open and inviting for the community.
>>
>> And i think developers already abandoned this thread..
> We haven't, we're just busy with the 4.0.2/4.1 release rampdown.
>
And to bring it all a little back to ground:

I had three issues with current master (not next branch) during the last
two weeks, which I reported in bugzilla.qooxdoo.org, partially equipped
with pull requests on github, all being resolved and part of the
upcoming releases. Kudos go to Martin Wittemann and Tobias Oberrauch,
both core team members. So the core dev team IS listening. That's good!

On the other side a short mail on the qooxdoo devel mailing list about
the targets and intentions of the next branch (something like please
read the blog article regarding the next branch is enough) not being the
next qooxdoo would have been great. So the core dev team is listening,
but maybe not talking enough. That could have been better.

Regarding the popularity of qooxdoo: As per current informations [1]
United Internet, where the core devs are working for (please correct me
if I'm wrong here), has 7800 employees with 2000 people working in
(cite) "product management, development and data centers".

It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
and reputation, as I suppose Google does whith AngularJS.

Regards
Dietrich

[1] http://www.united-internet.de/en/company.html





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Re: Qooxdoo users

fritz
On Thu, 11 Dec 2014, Dietrich Streifert wrote:

> And to bring it all a little back to ground:
>
> I had three issues with current master (not next branch) during the last
> two weeks, which I reported in bugzilla.qooxdoo.org, partially equipped
> with pull requests on github, all being resolved and part of the
> upcoming releases. Kudos go to Martin Wittemann and Tobias Oberrauch,
> both core team members. So the core dev team IS listening. That's good!

good to hear that you had similar experiences as we have.

> On the other side a short mail on the qooxdoo devel mailing list about
> the targets and intentions of the next branch (something like please
> read the blog article regarding the next branch is enough) not being the
> next qooxdoo would have been great. So the core dev team is listening,
> but maybe not talking enough. That could have been better.

On the other hand, the ratio of coding to talking is good ... ;-)

> Regarding the popularity of qooxdoo: As per current informations [1]
> United Internet, where the core devs are working for (please correct me
> if I'm wrong here), has 7800 employees with 2000 people working in
> (cite) "product management, development and data centers".
>
> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
> and reputation

That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.

Cheers,
Fritz

--
Oetiker+Partner AG              tel: +41 62 775 9903 (direct)
Fritz Zaucker                        +41 62 775 9900 (switch board)
Aarweg 15                            +41 79 675 0630 (mobile)
CH-4600 Olten                   fax: +41 62 775 9905
Schweiz                         web: www.oetiker.ch

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Daniel Wagner
Administrator
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:

>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

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Re: Qooxdoo users

fritz
On Thu, 11 Dec 2014, Daniel Wagner wrote:

> On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>>> and reputation
>>
>> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to
>> get such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fritz
>
> You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
> 1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
> ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
> developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
> it's very hard to justify the expense.

More users would probably also lead to more contributions, bug reports and
fixes, etc, so Qooxdoo and thus 1&1 would profit from that as well. Of
course, that also is hard to quantify.

--
Oetiker+Partner AG              tel: +41 62 775 9903 (direct)
Fritz Zaucker                        +41 62 775 9900 (switch board)
Aarweg 15                            +41 79 675 0630 (mobile)
CH-4600 Olten                   fax: +41 62 775 9905
Schweiz                         web: www.oetiker.ch

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Phyo Arkar
In reply to this post by Daniel Wagner
I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's Todo example there , won't cost a single dime. 

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

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Re: Qooxdoo users

oetiker


On 11.12.2014, at 18:55, Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's Todo example there , won't cost a single dime. 


Phyo

Great idea. Have you already submitted the code, or do you require any help. I'll be glad to review your code if you post it on Github.

Finally some one acting instead of just telling others what they should do.

 Go Phyo!

cheers
tobi


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Petr Kobalíček
This would be an interesting challenge actually.

I think that most problematic is the deploying process - generator. Yeah guys, please try this out and then share your experience on mailing list, I'm really curious about this.

Cheers,
Petr

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Tobi Oetiker <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 11.12.2014, at 18:55, Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's Todo example there , won't cost a single dime. 


Phyo

Great idea. Have you already submitted the code, or do you require any help. I'll be glad to review your code if you post it on Github.

Finally some one acting instead of just telling others what they should do.

 Go Phyo!

cheers
tobi


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

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Re: Qooxdoo users

MartinWittemann
Administrator
Totally agree! I would love to see that as well. We already have an issue for that [1]. So if anyone is interested, let me know by commenting on that issue e.g.. 

Btw. this is ofc true for every other issue we have in bugzilla. Just post a comment there and let us know you want to work on that. We can sure give you a head start, figure out what needs to be done and a way out how we get that integrated as well.

Regards,
Martin



Am 12.12.2014 um 01:00 schrieb Petr Kobalíček <[hidden email]>:

This would be an interesting challenge actually.

I think that most problematic is the deploying process - generator. Yeah guys, please try this out and then share your experience on mailing list, I'm really curious about this.

Cheers,
Petr

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Tobi Oetiker <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 11.12.2014, at 18:55, Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's Todo example there , won't cost a single dime. 


Phyo

Great idea. Have you already submitted the code, or do you require any help. I'll be glad to review your code if you post it on Github.

Finally some one acting instead of just telling others what they should do.

 Go Phyo!

cheers
tobi


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
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Re: Qooxdoo users

Phyo Arkar
Thanks a lot Thats a good start.
What i see in todoMVC is every framework's look and feel need to be exact same right?
So qxweb is needed to use there. Cannot post QxDesktop or Mobile there , i think.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Martin Wittemann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Totally agree! I would love to see that as well. We already have an issue for that [1]. So if anyone is interested, let me know by commenting on that issue e.g.. 

Btw. this is ofc true for every other issue we have in bugzilla. Just post a comment there and let us know you want to work on that. We can sure give you a head start, figure out what needs to be done and a way out how we get that integrated as well.

Regards,
Martin



Am 12.12.2014 um 01:00 schrieb Petr Kobalíček <[hidden email]>:

This would be an interesting challenge actually.

I think that most problematic is the deploying process - generator. Yeah guys, please try this out and then share your experience on mailing list, I'm really curious about this.

Cheers,
Petr

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Tobi Oetiker <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 11.12.2014, at 18:55, Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's Todo example there , won't cost a single dime. 


Phyo

Great idea. Have you already submitted the code, or do you require any help. I'll be glad to review your code if you post it on Github.

Finally some one acting instead of just telling others what they should do.

 Go Phyo!

cheers
tobi


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

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Re: Qooxdoo users

Phyo Arkar
In reply to this post by oetiker
Thanks Tobi , i am looking in todoMVC and how to make it look and feel the same , then i will get a few of my team to work on it , as an exercise process.

Ideally i want to make a desktop version there , but they won't allow that i guess , it will look very different.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Tobi Oetiker <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 11.12.2014, at 18:55, Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's Todo example there , won't cost a single dime. 


Phyo

Great idea. Have you already submitted the code, or do you require any help. I'll be glad to review your code if you post it on Github.

Finally some one acting instead of just telling others what they should do.

 Go Phyo!

cheers
tobi


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>> [...]
>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>> and reputation
>
> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to get
> such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>
> Cheers,
> Fritz
>

You have to keep in mind that qooxdoo is not a commercial product and
1&1 doesn't offer paid support for it or anything like that. So the only
ROI on promoting it would be to increase the company's profile with
developers. That's useful of course, but you can't put a number on it so
it's very hard to justify the expense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
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Re: Qooxdoo users

fritz
On Fri, 12 Dec 2014, Phyo Arkar wrote:

> Thanks Tobi , i am looking in todoMVC and how to make it look and feel the
> same , then i will get a few of my team to work on it , as an exercise
> process.

Don't forget to tell us what

   "won't cust a single dime"

ultimately came to ... (in man hours, for example).

> Ideally i want to make a desktop version there , but they won't allow that
> i guess

https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/blob/master/contributing.md

will tell you how to proceed ...

> it will look very different.

Perhaps a matter of theming?

> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Tobi Oetiker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 11.12.2014, at 18:55, Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think asking owner of TodoMVC site and ask them to post Qooxdoo's
>> Todo example there , won't cost a single dime.
>>
>> Phyo
>>
>> Great idea. Have you already submitted the code, or do you require any
>> help. I'll be glad to review your code if you post it on Github.
>>
>> Finally some one acting instead of just telling others what they should
>> do.
>>
>>  Go Phyo!
>>
>> cheers
>> tobi
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Daniel Wagner <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11.12.2014 09:19, Fritz Zaucker wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> It would be great to have one of those people with knowledge in PR and
>>>>> marketing help spreading qooxdoos word in order to gain more popularity
>>>>> and reputation
>>>>
>>>> That sounds like an excellent idea, although it might not be so easy to
>>>> get such a person assigned to the Qooxdoo team, I assume.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Fritz

--
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Fritz Zaucker                        +41 62 775 9900 (switch board)
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Schweiz                         web: www.oetiker.ch

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123