Future of Qooxdoo?

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Future of Qooxdoo?

Phyo Arkar
Since I stumbled upon Saaj's very balanced and awesome writeup http://recollection.saaj.me/article/qooxdoo-next-and-targeting-website-development.html , i am also worry about qooxdoo's direction.

Qooxdoo Original goals very good and Decisions are Sound , but back in that day , browsers aren't that powerful enough, i can agree with qooxdoo's Ambition to follow website path . 
But today , advancement of web techologies , everything has changed. And I believe it is time for Qooxdoo's original Goals to shine.

Angular , React , Emberjs , Polymer , they are all trying what qooxdoo did since 2009-2010 . They may have cool animations and stuff But , they are still NO MATCH for qooxdoo's ZeroHTML and Zero CSS way of doing things.  

QxWeb sucks , totally . I prefer awful JQuery over qxWeb , they are just similar , nothing sexy about it. I agree with saaj that there is no need to follow that path. QxMobile is also very outdated , not ready. None of the qooxdoo's spinoff projects can compare to  qxdesktop. Thats why , in http://phwa.be , we avoid qxweb/qxmobile and  trying to work everything in qxdesktop with masurable success so far for Mobile Phones too (just the biggest feature of qooxdoo , Virtual List , is tooo slow for mobile when scrolled , thanks to Fixed positioning) .


What i wish for qooxdoo in future, ? (more like a dream list)

- Scrap qxWeb , qxMobile , merge all possible features for qxMobile into qxdektop .

- Add a new layout that support both QxMobile and QxDesktop at the same time. So like Bootstrap/Material Design Light , only need one UI to develop both Mobile and desktop.

- Add New CSS capabilities (many are missing , Multiple shadows and many) Pull requests already exist but none of qxdoo devs care about them : 

- Allow more  Contributor collaboration with guidelines.

- A Convert for CSS to Qooxdoo Theme, that alone will make qooxdoo much easier to theme.

JUST SCRAP THAT BUGZILLA , nothing good about it. Use Github for issue management , it is more approachable for everyone, make everyone lifes easier.

Those will keep Qooxdoo above all others.

But Those may be just dreams?

Coz Qxdoo is pretty much dead since July.

Thanks

Phyo.






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Re: Future of Qooxdoo?

Andreas Ecker-2
Hi Phyo,

given the large scope of qooxdoo, there certainly is much to wish or even ask for. ;-)

We both are in touch by email already, so here just some general remarks about the project's directions.

qooxdoo is quite a mature framework. As such, many areas need maintenance only sporadically, while great apps can be created (often unparalleled by other frameworks) or kept in production. Other areas obviously would need more effort and technical advancement to always be up-to-date or even state-of-the-art. The needs of qooxdoo users (including our own) have shown to be quite diverse. So best bet is to pick those parts that fit individual requirements best (web, mobile, desktop), and put quality time yourself into improving, if needed.

Independent of any specific technical progress of the framework, it became obvious lately that qooxdoo as an open-source project needed a more concise and future-proof infrastructure. The current systems (e.g. homepage, issue tracking, ...) had become hard to maintain, if not a pain, historically being based on solutions that are legacy (Dokuwiki, Bugzilla, etc.). Much of it is also located on proprietary server hardware, requiring maintenance.

There is no alternative to fixing those infrastructure parts first. One of the initial steps: qooxdoo-contrib has been revamped, see http://news.qooxdoo.org/qooxdoo-contrib-3-0 . As pointed out there, opening up the systems for easier management and community participation is the way to go. The transition of framework infrastructure (e.g. towards Github) is currently being evaluated and worked on. Such an opened up infrastructure not only technically but organizationally allows for people to engage with the project and for shared responsibilities.

At some later time lets catch-up on how that could look like. For now focus is on replacing outdated infrastructure with alternatives (even if intermediate) that are much easier to handle and evolve.

Andreas

-- 
Andreas Ecker

Project Lead
http://qooxdoo.org


Von: Phyo Arkar <[hidden email]>
Antworten an: qooxdoo-devel <[hidden email]>
Datum: Freitag, 25. September 2015 13:39
An: qooxdoo-devel <[hidden email]>
Betreff: [qooxdoo-devel] Future of Qooxdoo?

Since I stumbled upon Saaj's very balanced and awesome writeup http://recollection.saaj.me/article/qooxdoo-next-and-targeting-website-development.html , i am also worry about qooxdoo's direction.

Qooxdoo Original goals very good and Decisions are Sound , but back in that day , browsers aren't that powerful enough, i can agree with qooxdoo's Ambition to follow website path . 
But today , advancement of web techologies , everything has changed. And I believe it is time for Qooxdoo's original Goals to shine.

Angular , React , Emberjs , Polymer , they are all trying what qooxdoo did since 2009-2010 . They may have cool animations and stuff But , they are still NO MATCH for qooxdoo's ZeroHTML and Zero CSS way of doing things.  

QxWeb sucks , totally . I prefer awful JQuery over qxWeb , they are just similar , nothing sexy about it. I agree with saaj that there is no need to follow that path. QxMobile is also very outdated , not ready. None of the qooxdoo's spinoff projects can compare to  qxdesktop. Thats why , in http://phwa.be , we avoid qxweb/qxmobile and  trying to work everything in qxdesktop with masurable success so far for Mobile Phones too (just the biggest feature of qooxdoo , Virtual List , is tooo slow for mobile when scrolled , thanks to Fixed positioning) .


What i wish for qooxdoo in future, ? (more like a dream list)

- Scrap qxWeb , qxMobile , merge all possible features for qxMobile into qxdektop .

- Add a new layout that support both QxMobile and QxDesktop at the same time. So like Bootstrap/Material Design Light , only need one UI to develop both Mobile and desktop.

- Add New CSS capabilities (many are missing , Multiple shadows and many) Pull requests already exist but none of qxdoo devs care about them : 

- Allow more  Contributor collaboration with guidelines.

- A Convert for CSS to Qooxdoo Theme, that alone will make qooxdoo much easier to theme.

JUST SCRAP THAT BUGZILLA , nothing good about it. Use Github for issue management , it is more approachable for everyone, make everyone lifes easier.

Those will keep Qooxdoo above all others.

But Those may be just dreams?

Coz Qxdoo is pretty much dead since July.

Thanks

Phyo.






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Re: Future of Qooxdoo?

John Spackman-3
In reply to this post by Phyo Arkar
Hi Phyo

While there are lots of things that could be changed (and I agree with quite a few of the points you and Saaj have made), my guess is that it’s largely an issue of “need" and human resource to make the changes.  I think it’s also important to note that Qooxdoo as a framework is very solid, which relates to Andreas’ point that focus is on maintenance and not much “needs” to be changed.  Whether there are other plans going on inside 1&1 that we’re not privy to I’ve no idea but there certainly is not a lot of commit activity, so it does seem reasonable to say that it is maintained but not actively developed.

I have a huge investment in Qooxdoo-based code (Desktop & Server) and will not be leaving for a very, very long time (if at all); my attitude is to have my own clone of the repo and I make changes to that as I need.  I try hard to make these as minor as possible and arguably I could (read: should) submit many of them back as pull requests, but ultimately my backup plan is that Qooxdoo is open source and any of us can fork the repo and carry it forward for our own purposes or as part of a community.  If I had the time I would use my clone to work towards some of the enhancements you’ve spoken about (and those on my own personal list) but pressures of work does not really allow it.

Many pull requests are included into the repo by the core team (140 out of 144 already included), and for those that are not (like #139) you can have your own fork and integrate them easily enough; keeping your master up to date with the Qooxdoo master is straightforward too.

So while it would be great if 1&1 were still funding 5 or 6 developers full time on the project and taking it in new directions for us, I think it’s fair to recognise that if we want to see some major changes we need to invest some of our own time to do it, and in the mean time we have a solid platform to build applications.  At least having your own clone gives you freedom to integrate pull requests and experiment with proposed changes.

John

From: Phyo Arkar
Reply-To: qooxdoo Development
Date: Friday, 25 September 2015 at 12:39
To: qooxdoo-devel
Subject: [qooxdoo-devel] Future of Qooxdoo?

Since I stumbled upon Saaj's very balanced and awesome writeup http://recollection.saaj.me/article/qooxdoo-next-and-targeting-website-development.html , i am also worry about qooxdoo's direction.

Qooxdoo Original goals very good and Decisions are Sound , but back in that day , browsers aren't that powerful enough, i can agree with qooxdoo's Ambition to follow website path . 
But today , advancement of web techologies , everything has changed. And I believe it is time for Qooxdoo's original Goals to shine.

Angular , React , Emberjs , Polymer , they are all trying what qooxdoo did since 2009-2010 . They may have cool animations and stuff But , they are still NO MATCH for qooxdoo's ZeroHTML and Zero CSS way of doing things.  

QxWeb sucks , totally . I prefer awful JQuery over qxWeb , they are just similar , nothing sexy about it. I agree with saaj that there is no need to follow that path. QxMobile is also very outdated , not ready. None of the qooxdoo's spinoff projects can compare to  qxdesktop. Thats why , in http://phwa.be , we avoid qxweb/qxmobile and  trying to work everything in qxdesktop with masurable success so far for Mobile Phones too (just the biggest feature of qooxdoo , Virtual List , is tooo slow for mobile when scrolled , thanks to Fixed positioning) .


What i wish for qooxdoo in future, ? (more like a dream list)

- Scrap qxWeb , qxMobile , merge all possible features for qxMobile into qxdektop .

- Add a new layout that support both QxMobile and QxDesktop at the same time. So like Bootstrap/Material Design Light , only need one UI to develop both Mobile and desktop.

- Add New CSS capabilities (many are missing , Multiple shadows and many) Pull requests already exist but none of qxdoo devs care about them : 

- Allow more  Contributor collaboration with guidelines.

- A Convert for CSS to Qooxdoo Theme, that alone will make qooxdoo much easier to theme.

JUST SCRAP THAT BUGZILLA , nothing good about it. Use Github for issue management , it is more approachable for everyone, make everyone lifes easier.

Those will keep Qooxdoo above all others.

But Those may be just dreams?

Coz Qxdoo is pretty much dead since July.

Thanks

Phyo.





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